"Countries can end their dependence on aid," Tony Blair tells BBC's Today Programme

Tony Blair tells Today presenter Sarah Montague that "Within a generation, no country needs be dependent on aid."

SARAH MONTAGUE: Within a generation, no country need be dependent on aid – quite a claim. One, though, being made by Tony Blair at an international conference on aid in South Korea.  I spoke to him a little earlier and asked him to explain exactly what he meant by that.

TONY BLAIR: I think it is possible if countries take the right steps today to end their dependence on aid. The interesting thing about this international conference is that it is happening in a place called Busan in South Korea. 50 years ago, South Korea was actually the largest recipient of American aid.  The city here was in a pretty run-down condition.  It is now one of the busiest ports in the world and South Korea is an economy that is very large and an aid donor today.  So it is possible to make change.

Africa, in particular, has an enormous opportunity today because its resources are needed by the world. Actually, its growth rates have been high in the last few years. Its democracy and governance is growing and, if it takes the right steps and we do the right things to help them, I think it is possible to end dependence on aid. That should be our aim, by the way – not to keep them dependent on aid, but to help them come off it.

SARAH MONTAGUE:  Are you suggesting, when you say ‘a generation’, the 50 years that your South Korea example has taken?

TONY BLAIR: No, I think quicker than that, actually. I mean, South Korea did it in probably about 25 to 30 years. 

If you look at what has happened in Africa now, it is very interesting that, if you go back a few years ago, 70% of the money coming from overseas into Africa was development assistance.  If you look at the figure today, that is down to 13%.  Now, that is not because less aid is coming.  Actually, there is still a lot of aid coming to Africa, not least as a result of commitments by our country and others, but what is also happening now is that foreign direct investment in Africa actually is set now to overwhelm the amount of aid.  You have new players in the continent like China that spends now more on infrastructure in Africa than the World Bank does.  You have major philanthropic institutions like The Gates Foundation. 

It is a very changing picture.  Whereas in the 1980s, there were probably only a handful of truly fair elections, in the last decade there have been 25 in Africa.  The growth rates are high.

SARAH MONTAGUE:  When you look at the entry of China as such a huge player to Africa – because for decades we have done a lot of hand-wringing and donating it to Africa – China comes along and has made a remarkable difference to both China’s and Africa’s advantage in recent years.  Do you think they have the model right and perhaps we have not in the past?

TONY BLAIR:We should learn from each other.  I think we do the political development, the human-rights side of it actually very well.  Where China scores is in the speed in which it acts.  As one African leader once said to me, ‘When I’m negotiating with Western donors, it takes me absolutely months and months to get anything done.  When I say to the Chinese I need a road from A to B, the next day someone is out there with a shovel.’  We can learn from them, but they can also learn from us.

SARAH MONTAGUE: There will be plenty of people here listening and thinking, ‘We should act more like China.  We should not be protecting our overseas aid budget when we are in such dire economic straits.  We should instead be opening up trade, which might benefit us and Africa.’

TONY BLAIR:Preferably, we should do both.  Certainly, we should open up trade and markets.  It is worth just pointing out, because sometimes – particularly when budgets are stressed back home – people say, ‘Should we really be spending this money on aid?’  However, if you take the money spent, for example, on the Global Health Initiative, it is quite remarkable the progress there has been over the past few years.  I mean, there have been millions of lives saved as a result of access to HIV/AIDS treatment. The measles vaccination programme – again funded by countries like the UK – has cut deaths from measles by around half.

I totally understand why people will say, ‘Well, should we be spending this money abroad and not at home?’ but I think it is just worth emphasising to people this money really does work, particularly in things like healthcare programmes, when they are done in conjunction with other institutions.  They make a difference and you can measure that difference in hundreds of thousands of lives.

SARAH MONTAGUE:  Tony Blair, thank you very much.